Surprising preflop solver recommendation – AKQJ:xyyy

  • Surprising preflop solver recommendation – AKQJ:xyyy

     0580steve updated 4 months, 3 weeks ago 3 Members · 5 Posts
  • Christianpeters

    June 4, 2021 at 9:35 pm

    I just started using the PLO trainer and am focusing on highly multiway spots and deep effective stacks, which are extremely common in live play.

    One spot I am working on is BTN range when facing an EP open, and 2 calls. The solver is folding AyKxQxJx which is stunning to me, and a fold I would literally never make in reality.

    What the logic behind folding this hand on the button?

  • Abhorash

    June 4, 2021 at 9:59 pm

    One thing to consider is that the solver does things that are not exploitable but may actually be a big mistake (in that specific situation) against players who are deviating a lot from GTO. An easy way to visualize this is for example 4-betting GTO ranges against someone who ONLY 3-bets AAxx. In that case, 4-betting non-AA hands is a big mistake as you have 0 fold equity and will be 5-bet 100% of the time with AAxx.

    In your case, there may be a good reason why it is a fold GTO, but I just wouldn’t expect live players in particular to be as selective with their hands as they should be. Of course the non-A high suit hurts a lot, but I think against averge live players I am calling there on the button with that hand.

    • Christianpeters

      June 4, 2021 at 10:12 pm

      You give a good example. I would say at least 50% of the hundreds of players I encounter playing live literally never 3bet without AA. And in fact, a significant % of players only 3bet the absolute best AA even in situations where they have the option of 4betting.

      I am enjoying working with the solver, but since I am only playing live (USA), my games deviate insanely from GTO. There are some common situations I encounter every session I play, that the solver cannot really help me with – examples: super deep >500bb effective stacks, or multiple limps, or tiny 3bet squeezes.

      I am just trying to focus on preflop play right now and trying to adjust ranges based on tables with average VPIP > 50%, which is common even at high stakes live.

  • 0580steve

    July 9, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    In the PLO Trainer web app, AKQJ is a fold 85.5%, call 0.8% and double suited, it shows AsQsKhJh (EV 1.60) and AsKsQhJh (EV 7.46) both as raises 13.7% and the shocker in the ds variety is AsJsKhQh, which is also in the raise column, however, the EV is -13.36.

    My guess as to how the solver is thinking is that with an EP raiser and 2 callers, the expectation may be that many of the cards you’d need to continue are already held by the first 3 positions, so you’d only get involved with the most premium of holdings of that combination.

  • 0580steve

    July 9, 2021 at 5:54 pm

    Maybe this is a bit off topic as an add on but your question had me curious to find some of the hands that the button can 3-bet against an EP raiser and 2 callers at PLO 50, so at PLO 500 and 5000, they have to easily be a 3-bet at a higher percentage. (100 bb used).

    All of this is from the PLO Trainer Web App:

    Obviously any AAxx, AKK3 ds (86.8%), AKK5 (rainbow is a fold (12.5%) A5sKK is a call (1.6%) but with the AK suited, 3-bet is (85.9%), KKTT ds (83.2%) , KQKQ ds (89.8%), QJQJ ds (77.2%) and JTJT ds (74.7%).

    For an additional example of the difference between JTJT ds at PLO 50 is 74.7%, at PLO 500 it’s 80.5% and at PLO 5000, it’s 83.3%.

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