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Raising over limpers thin
MemberMay 26, 2020 at 8:39 pm
So I’m playing this really loose preflop ante game with real bad players and I find myself raising vs several limpers.
We are usually playing fullring and I don’t know where to put the limit in Raising over them expecting to always play a MW pot vs several opponents. So I’l put some example hands in order to see if I should loosen or tighten my ranges.
I’m playing extremely tight in this game. My general FR stats in a 8seats table are 16,4/7,4 with 4.4% 3-bet. Do you think thats way too tight in a game where every pot is 4-5way or more?
This are the most extreme ROL examples I found in my database. But I feel some of them are too loose already.
When we are 6max I’m playing 21,5/11,5. I think it’s not too tight in this kind of game.
What do you think?
MemberMay 27, 2020 at 12:44 am
Also I’m not sure about ROL with 8754ds vs several limpers and hands of this kind if im in BU. Position is good and players are real bad so I believe it’s a playable hand despite it being MW. This guys can stackoff 2pair in a straight board.
Deepstack I’d ROL it but with 100bb maybe not. Would you? Would you overlimp if not raising it?
I wrote 8754 because I believe 8765ds is a standard ROL IP. Is it?
MemberMay 27, 2020 at 2:50 am
MemberMay 27, 2020 at 9:57 pm
MemberMay 28, 2020 at 9:51 am
Your preflop stats seem fine for such a loose game. You will make huge profit with the strongest parts of your preflop hands, and there is no need to play a bunch of other hands that don’t perform well in multiway pots.
I wouldn’t raise over limpers with 8754ds in such a loose game. Just overlimp if you’re on the button or close to it, or in the big blind, otherwise fold.
8765ds, is a hand I think overlimping could be superior to iso-raising. Especially when playing against multiple palyers a lot postflop.
MemberMay 28, 2020 at 6:25 pm
You are definitely playing too loose for this game. If the avg number of opponents who saw flop is more than 4 you’re probably going to want to play no looser than 14%. If the avg is between 3-4 at a full ring table I’d cap it at 15. The other thing to consider is the structure of the game. In the case of antes, whenever you isolate for a pot sized raise, you’re going to end up creating a spot where your SPR is between 3-4. That’s a shitty spot because you’re going to have ok to good equity in a lot of spots, but you’re going to have to fold quite often because someone is going to donk for pot into you and there are people behind you left to act. For example, on the AJT7, how thrilled are you when someone donks pot into you and there are two people left to act on a board of J56dd? You’re SLAUGHTERING a good deal of his range (AJT2/678x, naked 56) but yet you have to fold because there are going to be so many combos that have you drawing dead and it’s not just the guy who donked that you have to worry about.
So specifically, AJT7 is a fold, i would want a nut suit to vpip here. AT92 is a complete, and when i’m completing from the small or checking my big, I’m almost always playing a check full range strategy on the flop. KTJ9 triple is probably fine as a raise on the button, but I don’t like raising for pot. You’re not folding anyone out and you want to create postflop situations that highly favor you (deep sprs in position is the domain of the professional.) AQ98 is a fold without a nut suit in 98% of cases (if the button is VERY weak passive, I wouldn’t hate a smaller raise to gain absolute position…but this play is very marginal and highly dependent upon who the button is.) QTT4 is just spew. I would pitch up to about QTT7, I might limp the T7/T8 combos and raise QTT9+
5986 there’s merit to all three options. Given how loose button is, I would probably just fold. The problem with this hand in this spot is that we want very shallow sprs or sprs of like 8+ in position with this hand. No way in hell that’s happening here, given that button is vpiping 80+. I think that if button and blinds were all 40ish vpips, its a very clear iso because you’re going be playing a 3 handed pot in position a good amount. The problem with playing this hand in an spr of 3-4 is that you’re going to flop well a lot, but you’re going to have a ton of shitty runouts which will lead to you betting the flop a ton, and being in no mans land on a ton of turns (in reality what should happen is that you should check most of your good+ flops and commit most of your money on turns and rivers<font face=”inherit”>.) All your two pairs are going to have a ton of higher two pairs on any q+ turn and make a straight that you don’t have on any 7-J. You’re never in love with a flush with this hand. Your straights are qjt/jt7/t76/987/976/975/874/743/432. 3 of these are non nut straights. Of your 6 nut straights, not a single one is going to come with a nut straight redraw, and as is the case with all low straights, you’re just not going to make it to the river with the nuts very often (this is why broadway straights are so strong.) The more I talk it out, the more I think this is just a fold. You really only need to have board coverage down to about the 76. This hand in particular really wants to see flops that are 6 hi are less, and these are very low frequency </font>occurrences<font face=”inherit”>. Yeah, just fold. </font>
<font face=”inherit”>In closing, one of my mentors in the game discusses the concept of deciding whether you want to play poker, or whether you want to play bingo? The majority of the guys who populate these very loose, action filled games want to play bingo. They want a story to share with their buddies about the time they ran hot and turned $2k into $30k and bought a new truck only to have it repossessed a month later. They want to shove a bunch of money into the pot and see what happens. The professional wants the opposite. The professional wants to skillfully maneuver himself in a way that increases win rate and decreases variance. The professional wants to play a lot of hands too, but in a bingo game, the professional realizes that there just isn’t any profit in the fringe hands and profit always comes first in the eyes of the professional. The professional realizes that wild loose games are very profitable, but they’re also very high variance. In a game of bingo, the professional is looking for hands that have all of: nut suits, hi cards and single gaps. The professional knows that in order to profit at bingo, his strategy is: Play very tight, push equity, don’t tilt, be bored </font>
MemberMay 28, 2020 at 10:10 pm
Thank you so much for your answer guys. This was really valuable and useful for me. After all I’m only some month in the PLO world but already gambling with some money and every one of this answers is of really high value to me.
Thank you for taking your time to answer.