Problems playing deep against balsy players

  • Problems playing deep against balsy players

     Betandgrowrich updated 1 day, 9 hours ago 4 Members · 6 Posts
  • Christianpeters

    Member
    January 7, 2021 at 8:40 pm

    I have a lot of trouble adjusting to overly aggro players when I get 300bb+ deep in live games. It’s frustrating me a lot – most of the largest pots I have lost in the last 3 months are these situations. I would love it if you guys could do a series on ultra deep stack live play (500+ bb) for us Americans.

    Good example hand from last month is below.

    5/5/10 live in Houston:

    Villain is key in this hand. Played with him a lot. He is a smart guy, probably wins in these games but doesn’t crush them. He has extremely swingy style. I think he is overly aggressive, but I wouldn’t say he is a maniac exactly. He has no problem bluffing 500+ bb. I get the impression that he reads me as tight / nitty and for some psychological reason, he really likes going after me. If I had to guess, his overall 3bet in the 8-max games is <10%, but he 3bets me much higher %.

    I have $9,000, he covers. I am in MP. Game is 5/5/10 but there is always a lot of straddling. Villain has the straddle $20 on. I open MP with KhQcQd5c to $100 (max pf raise is 5x the straddle until true pot kicks in). Folds to villain who 3bets to $320. I call.

    Flop ($660): Tc9s2c – Villain bets $500. I call.

    (I think against him it would be correct to raise/GII even if I had $5k effective, but 9k is just too deep).

    Turn ($1660): Tc9s2c 8s. Villain bets $1100. What should hero do?

  • Harjitsingh

    Member
    January 9, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Hi Christian

    You are holding a key blockers, two QQ for a straight and two clubs for a flush although not nutted.

    You are in position and had lot of potential rivers which can go your way, you should call. And you want to play multiple streets with your hand in position. If he check the river, you bet 50-60% of pot (whether you made nuts on the the river or a flush or just one pair). If he bets, you fold unless you have flush and raise shove if you have nut straight.

    If you were OOP, I would have said you to check raise all in as you do not want to play OOP for multiple streets. You have lot of equlty, medium strength flush and a gut shot to nut straight.


    Thanks

    Harjit

  • Christianpeters

    Member
    January 10, 2021 at 1:55 am

    The huge distinction on position makes a lot of sense. I have a weakness as a player in deep pots where when i am deciding between pot/gii and just flatting and playing the next street, i often am choosing the aggressive option – not because it’s optimal but because it let’s me avoid difficult spots.

  • Senselessapprentice

    Member
    January 12, 2021 at 7:54 pm

    Think this is a borderline open in MP vs. super aggro table, very deep.

    Also FWIW, this is a 100% fold to 3b in plo trainer.

    As played, and your read on V thinking you are pretty tight, I think this would be a cool hand to raise turn smallish setting up a river shove, with your blockers and equity. This will look incredibly strong to V as you are leveraging his entire stack OTR with this turn sizing, and it seems as if he thinks you to be nitty? It’s high variance play ofc because you will have to jam brick rivers, and You would know better than me if he is the type to hero or not. But it puts his sets/lower straights/two pairs in a really tough spot.

    • Betandgrowrich

      Member
      January 15, 2021 at 8:15 pm

      You basically don’t get to fold anything against a 3b IP at 200bb+ deep, maybe even sooner than that at something like 150bbs.

  • Betandgrowrich

    Member
    January 15, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    I think that in order to escape from this type of a dynamic that you are describing, both against villain but also against the part of yourself that feels uncomfortable in such spots, you just have to start playing back with an increased level of intensity and just embrace the variance.

    Now, when you do that it might work sometimes, it might not work other times, but each time you are guaranteed to experience some new emotions after the hand. If it worked you might start feeling more confident – be careful because it’s easy for that feeling to grow into cockiness and for you to just step from one leak into the next.
    If it doesn’t work you might go on tilt, which is good because then you know the two major areas of your game that you have to work on next: playing back against high intensity opponents when deep and tilting after adjusting and losing.

    Bottom line you either adjust and look for a way to change the dynamic to a point where you have the edge over villain or you make peace with the fact that villain has the edge over you.

    I would personally use this spot to play back and would start doing it OTT. Combinatorically it’s very hard for villain to have a hand that can continue against a turn raise + river shove for 900bbs effective, obviously this is made even less likely by the fact that you heavily block QJ, and given the dynamic + the fact that you still have some hail marry equity if worse comes to worse I think raising to like 3.5k holds a decent bit of value.

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