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Donking turn in 3 bet pots
MemberMay 16, 2020 at 1:00 pm
Hello Members and JNP-Team!
Very happy that MM has a forum again where we can exchange strategies and hands. Just played this hand on party and was wondering what you guys think.
MP opens, BTN calls we Squeeze, MP Folds BTN calls. We are slightly deeper than 100bbs, so I decided to go for a x/c OTF. I think all three options are fine here. With two BDFD I would def bet gii OTF. BTN stabs for half pot and I decided to call.
Turn is a very good card for us. My feeling is that we should donk here for a big sizing. Even though BTN has a boat more often he has soo many Q or 8 plus straight draw hands. On the other side we are blocking a lot of the mid runddowns with T9 and we dont block a pair so really nut sure… Help please! 🙂
ps. What would be the way to post hands here? Great addition would be something like a hand replayer that converts the raw date here from HM.
MemberMay 16, 2020 at 3:31 pm
Nice start @dasim ! I’m excited as well about the forum comeback.
We are working on smooth solutions to post hands, such a replayer and parser that will make a hand history look good. Posting an image for the moment is a good work-around. Make sure to use the little photocamera icon when posting a picture.
I agree here with @Spaderunner – the flop is too strong for our range and the SPR so shallow that we should mainly pot our hands we want to go with.
see image “Flop Strategy after SB”
Nearly 80% of our Preflop Range pots the flop (AAT9 incl.)
see image “Flop Equity Distribution”
Although we are not holding the polarity edge, our 55,4% equity advantage and the bad position “forces” us to just pot with medium strong – strong hands.
If you check the PLO-Trainer Bucket Breakdown for Flop (see image below “Flop Strategy PLO-Trainer), you can see that some weak AAxx hands are in fact going for a check (check/call mainly).
Hands such as AA26ss, AAT2 no bdfd etc. Let’s look into those combos for possible turn donking strategies.
see image “Turn Strategy after xcall”
We are donking turn about 50% of the time.
OP w/o a straight blocker are donking VERY often (75%) and mainly for pot. So your idea @dasim about check/call donking is right. It’s just that your hand was too strong for this line.
Cool hand to review.
Thanks for the submission
MemberMay 22, 2020 at 4:17 pm
It’s important to explain that this Q85 board is “disconnected” and that’s why we attack it so much but in more connected examples like Q76 or Q87 we are using a way more passive strategy.
Of course what we are facing is a Call in BU vs MP range and not a OR range but I think same logic may apply. Am I right? I want to understand the underlying reasons for strategy differences in order to understand the spot propperly.
Here is a picture of postflop shortcuts solutions for SB vs BU 3-bet.
MemberMay 23, 2020 at 5:51 pm
wow, that small change makes such a big difference, good insight
MemberMay 23, 2020 at 4:52 pm
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I got another hand donking turn in 3bet pot OOP.
We 3bet vs CO, and x call 50% bet OTF. Turn is a very good card for our range and our opponent can have lots of weaker hands and draws that he would check back. If we donk imo pot is the only option.
Is this line good? Almost every card in the deck will change the nuts OTR so it will be a very difficult spot because we are acting first. We have a good hand but no blockers to all the draws!
Thanks for any feedback!
MemberMay 25, 2020 at 8:18 am
I would have just potted the flop with such a vulnerable hand (at 100bb).
But Monker goes either half pot or x/calls. I guess it looks at the hand as strong enough to build, even though we have to give up on a good amount of turns.
As we are deeper in this hand I think your line is the only viable one, really. So nice hand! Obv if the turn wouldn’t be this dynamic (two flush draws), we might choose a different sizing.